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> <channel><title>Comments for Christian Feminism Today</title> <atom:link href="http://www.eewc.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.eewc.com</link> <description>Equality and Inclusiveness Through God&#039;s Expansive Love</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 00:25:03 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>Comment on Faith, Rebellion, and a Larger Story by Trackback</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/faith-rebellion-and-a-larger-story/#comment-50</link> <dc:creator>Trackback</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 00:25:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=2033#comment-50</guid> <description>http://dritta.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/faith-rebellion/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a
href="http://dritta.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/faith-rebellion/" rel="nofollow">http://dritta.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/faith-rebellion/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on “When One Woman Cries. . .” by Virginia Mollenkott</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/when-one-woman-cries/#comment-2</link> <dc:creator>Virginia Mollenkott</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:33:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1849#comment-2</guid> <description>I’m sorry to see this intergenerational blog come to an end, although it’s good to know there will be others. I especially appreciated your emphasis, Letha, on the fact that we who were young white middle-class women in the 60’s could not deal with other women’s problems until we were able to recognize our own. Suzannah Tilton, for instance, was discouraged from studying medicine for no reason than her femaleness; and women were very scarce as I entered my Ph.D. program at NYU. But now, on with a many-pronged approach to the problems of many kinds of women in many social situations.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sorry to see this intergenerational blog come to an end, although it’s good to know there will be others. I especially appreciated your emphasis, Letha, on the fact that we who were young white middle-class women in the 60’s could not deal with other women’s problems until we were able to recognize our own. Suzannah Tilton, for instance, was discouraged from studying medicine for no reason than her femaleness; and women were very scarce as I entered my Ph.D. program at NYU. But now, on with a many-pronged approach to the problems of many kinds of women in many social situations.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on What Betty Friedan Did and Didn&#8217;t Do by Virginia Mollenkott</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/what-betty-friedan-did-and-didnt-do/#comment-5</link> <dc:creator>Virginia Mollenkott</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 01:24:40 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1862#comment-5</guid> <description>Terrific blog, Letha.
It was after reading Friedan that it dawned on me that I didn’t know what my favorite color was, let alone more important preferences–and that the reason I didn’t know myself was precisely “the feminine mystique.” Suddenly my resentment at being asked to contribute cookies to the college bake sales–resentment because none of the male professors were asked to do so–no longer seemed to me like selfishness, but rather the result of an unjust paradigm within which I had been trying to live. (A paradigm is what we think we think before we really THINK about it). So it was Betty Friedan, heterosexist as she might have been, who set this lesbian woman free from the first major paradigm she had to resist.Thank you for so perfectly describing the emptiness from which we had to liberate ourselves.
Love, Virginia</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific blog, Letha.</p><p>It was after reading Friedan that it dawned on me that I didn’t know what my favorite color was, let alone more important preferences–and that the reason I didn’t know myself was precisely “the feminine mystique.” Suddenly my resentment at being asked to contribute cookies to the college bake sales–resentment because none of the male professors were asked to do so–no longer seemed to me like selfishness, but rather the result of an unjust paradigm within which I had been trying to live. (A paradigm is what we think we think before we really THINK about it). So it was Betty Friedan, heterosexist as she might have been, who set this lesbian woman free from the first major paradigm she had to resist.Thank you for so perfectly describing the emptiness from which we had to liberate ourselves.</p><p>Love, Virginia</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on What Betty Friedan Did and Didn&#8217;t Do by Karen Kidd</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/what-betty-friedan-did-and-didnt-do/#comment-4</link> <dc:creator>Karen Kidd</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 01:55:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1862#comment-4</guid> <description>Letha &amp; Kimberly: I was just starting high school in 1963, when Friedan’s book came out, and I remember seeing copies of this “best seller” for sale in the rack at my local drugstore soon thereafter. Sadly, I didn’t buy one. I had to manage my small allowance rather carefully. This relates to Betty Friedan’s socioeconomic “blindness,” which has been pointed out countless times. But where are the comments about the socioeconomic “savvy” involved in the marketing of her message? True, Betty was studying women from her own college-educated and reasonably affluent social class; but she was also writing for them. Then (and now) this is THE group that BUYS books. This is also the group that, in most historic situations, has led the charge for women’s rights. I call this “the paradox of the pedestal,” for it seems that the least oppressed women are usually the first to complain about their oppression. They’re also the ones in the best position to begin taking action, once they recognize that they’ve been denied the entitlement (enjoyed by male peers) that they believe is their due, and then begin to see that the “personal is political.” Although there’s no way of knowing the extent to which Betty intentionally targeted her audience, she clearly hit the bullseye.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Letha &amp; Kimberly: I was just starting high school in 1963, when Friedan’s book came out, and I remember seeing copies of this “best seller” for sale in the rack at my local drugstore soon thereafter. Sadly, I didn’t buy one. I had to manage my small allowance rather carefully. This relates to Betty Friedan’s socioeconomic “blindness,” which has been pointed out countless times. But where are the comments about the socioeconomic “savvy” involved in the marketing of her message? True, Betty was studying women from her own college-educated and reasonably affluent social class; but she was also writing for them. Then (and now) this is THE group that BUYS books. This is also the group that, in most historic situations, has led the charge for women’s rights. I call this “the paradox of the pedestal,” for it seems that the least oppressed women are usually the first to complain about their oppression. They’re also the ones in the best position to begin taking action, once they recognize that they’ve been denied the entitlement (enjoyed by male peers) that they believe is their due, and then begin to see that the “personal is political.” Although there’s no way of knowing the extent to which Betty intentionally targeted her audience, she clearly hit the bullseye.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on What Betty Friedan Did and Didn&#8217;t Do by Jann Aldredge-Clanton</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/what-betty-friedan-did-and-didnt-do/#comment-3</link> <dc:creator>Jann Aldredge-Clanton</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 10:45:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1862#comment-3</guid> <description>Dear Letha,
Your response to Kimberly’s critique of “The Feminine Mystique” really resonates with me. Although Friedan’s book was not an epiphany for me, as was yours and Nancy’s, I think you are right in all you state about the book’s accomplishments. I’m greatly impressed by your thorough response so full of knowledge and wisdom. Also, I admire Kimberly’s gifts as a writer and appreciate many of the points she makes. I agree with her that Friedan should have stated the audience for whom she was writing. But we must remember that she wrote before authors stated their social “location.” Certainly we don’t find white, middle-class, Western, heterosexual men stating their “location” then, and so many still don’t.
You refer to Second Wave and Third Wave feminists. I know these categories are prevalent in academia and probably in other arenas where people discuss feminism at all. But I’ve always resisted labels and putting things and people into categories, because often that becomes a way of dismissing them. So I’ve felt uneasy when I hear the label “Second Wave feminist,” and especially when I’ve been put into that category. I feel that there is some ageism in this label, that sometimes younger women dismiss us by saying we are “Second Wave feminists,” meaning we are outdated. I’ve heard “Third Wave” feminists criticize Gloria Steinem and Rosemary Radford Ruether for not considering the intersectionality of social injustices, but I think they both have done so, even though in their early writings they didn’t use that term. Also, some “Third Wave” feminists seem to think that we no longer need to be concerned about issues like the ERA or equality for women in religious institutions or inclusive language because the goals on these issues have been accomplished, but they have not been. In fact, many of the goals of “First Wave” feminists, like Elizabeth Cady Stanton, have still not been accomplished. Otherwise, all churches and faith communities would have equal numbers of women and men in leadership, and there would be equal numbers of women and men in Congress.
On the other hand, I know that older feminists have not always welcomed the new perspectives of younger feminists, who have been right in advocating for the integration of social issues, so that we work against sexism, racism, classism, and heterosexism at the same time. I believe that we as feminists can work together on these issues, and that labeling one another as “Second Wave” or “Third Wave” does not help. In fact, sometimes I think the anti-feminists and/or just those invested in the status quo delight in our labeling one another when this leads to discounting any of our concerns and to divisions among us. So instead of using labels, I advocate for all of us to work together on multiple issues. I think the beauty of your 72-27 blog is that it does just that. Also, I admire the way EEWC as a whole brings together women of all generations to work together to contribute to social justice for all women and girls and all people.
Blessings,
Jann</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Letha,</p><p>Your response to Kimberly’s critique of “The Feminine Mystique” really resonates with me. Although Friedan’s book was not an epiphany for me, as was yours and Nancy’s, I think you are right in all you state about the book’s accomplishments. I’m greatly impressed by your thorough response so full of knowledge and wisdom. Also, I admire Kimberly’s gifts as a writer and appreciate many of the points she makes. I agree with her that Friedan should have stated the audience for whom she was writing. But we must remember that she wrote before authors stated their social “location.” Certainly we don’t find white, middle-class, Western, heterosexual men stating their “location” then, and so many still don’t.</p><p>You refer to Second Wave and Third Wave feminists. I know these categories are prevalent in academia and probably in other arenas where people discuss feminism at all. But I’ve always resisted labels and putting things and people into categories, because often that becomes a way of dismissing them. So I’ve felt uneasy when I hear the label “Second Wave feminist,” and especially when I’ve been put into that category. I feel that there is some ageism in this label, that sometimes younger women dismiss us by saying we are “Second Wave feminists,” meaning we are outdated. I’ve heard “Third Wave” feminists criticize Gloria Steinem and Rosemary Radford Ruether for not considering the intersectionality of social injustices, but I think they both have done so, even though in their early writings they didn’t use that term. Also, some “Third Wave” feminists seem to think that we no longer need to be concerned about issues like the ERA or equality for women in religious institutions or inclusive language because the goals on these issues have been accomplished, but they have not been. In fact, many of the goals of “First Wave” feminists, like Elizabeth Cady Stanton, have still not been accomplished. Otherwise, all churches and faith communities would have equal numbers of women and men in leadership, and there would be equal numbers of women and men in Congress.</p><p>On the other hand, I know that older feminists have not always welcomed the new perspectives of younger feminists, who have been right in advocating for the integration of social issues, so that we work against sexism, racism, classism, and heterosexism at the same time. I believe that we as feminists can work together on these issues, and that labeling one another as “Second Wave” or “Third Wave” does not help. In fact, sometimes I think the anti-feminists and/or just those invested in the status quo delight in our labeling one another when this leads to discounting any of our concerns and to divisions among us. So instead of using labels, I advocate for all of us to work together on multiple issues. I think the beauty of your 72-27 blog is that it does just that. Also, I admire the way EEWC as a whole brings together women of all generations to work together to contribute to social justice for all women and girls and all people.</p><p>Blessings,<br
/> Jann</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on Feminine Mystique&#8211;Revisited by Cara</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/feminine-mystique-revisited/#comment-6</link> <dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 04:00:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1881#comment-6</guid> <description>I always enjoy both yours and Letha’s writings so much, but I don’t quite find myself on the same page with your critique of the Feminine Mystique. I think that some of the point that Friedan was making was that these WERE privileged women. The problem that I believe she was pointing out, was that those in comfortable white middle class who had the least apparent problems in their lives–those with the least cause to be unhappy–still were in fact unhappy. This was the mystery she was examining.
I think it might be less Friedan’s fault, and more the interpretation by the public readership that is to blame. To look at the book and take away from it some neatly boxed up outline of “the problem for women” is the type of oversimplification that inevitably happens to any minority group. Or really just any group. It’s turning a discussion into “Oh, that’s what women want” or just as easily “that’s what men want.”
I don’t disagree that Friedan’s use of “women” without any qualifying statement to lend clarity to the more specific sub-group she is actually referring to is problematic. However, I guess I think that she is not completely to blame. Perhaps it’s partly in the hearers also?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always enjoy both yours and Letha’s writings so much, but I don’t quite find myself on the same page with your critique of the Feminine Mystique. I think that some of the point that Friedan was making was that these WERE privileged women. The problem that I believe she was pointing out, was that those in comfortable white middle class who had the least apparent problems in their lives–those with the least cause to be unhappy–still were in fact unhappy. This was the mystery she was examining.<br
/> I think it might be less Friedan’s fault, and more the interpretation by the public readership that is to blame. To look at the book and take away from it some neatly boxed up outline of “the problem for women” is the type of oversimplification that inevitably happens to any minority group. Or really just any group. It’s turning a discussion into “Oh, that’s what women want” or just as easily “that’s what men want.”<br
/> I don’t disagree that Friedan’s use of “women” without any qualifying statement to lend clarity to the more specific sub-group she is actually referring to is problematic. However, I guess I think that she is not completely to blame. Perhaps it’s partly in the hearers also?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on Feminine Mystique&#8211;Revisited by Gabrielle</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/feminine-mystique-revisited/#comment-7</link> <dc:creator>Gabrielle</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 21:57:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1881#comment-7</guid> <description>Add cis-sexual to the list of adjectives (white, middle-class, heterosexual).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add cis-sexual to the list of adjectives (white, middle-class, heterosexual).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on The &#8220;Feminine Mystique&#8221;&#8211;Then and Now, Part 1 by alissa</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/the-feminine-mystique-then-and-now-part-1/#comment-85</link> <dc:creator>alissa</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 01:01:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=2135#comment-85</guid> <description> Just stumbled upon this - what a cool blog - so gracious and smart</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just stumbled upon this &#8211; what a cool blog &#8211; so gracious and smart</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on Stepping over Boundaries and Finding New Metaphors by Nancy Hardesty</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/stepping-over-boundaries-and-finding-new-metaphors/#comment-9</link> <dc:creator>Nancy Hardesty</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 22:02:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1904#comment-9</guid> <description>As always, Letha, you give us so much to think about! Your final comments about “building up” made me think: Didn’t these people pay attention in Sunday school when we learned that song about the foolish man who built his house on the sand and the wise woman who built her house on the Rock! (Okay, maybe I changed the words but I can still sing and do the motions at the same time!). In reading your post I was also reminded of my mother’s fear that a taste of wine at the Episcopal communion rail would lead straight to alcoholism. And the memorable line in my first published article declaring that dancing led to sex. Slippery slopes indeed!
But among conservative Christians, there are many other sources of fear as well. Certainly a perennial source in American history since its invention by John Nelson Darby in the nineteenth century is Dispensationalism. A headline in my local newspaper this morning reads ” Billboards predict the Rapture.”. Well actually the story reveals that the billboards in nine major cities so far did not come up with this on their own but were put up to it by fans of Family Radio. Its founder Harold Camping has declared that for sure Jesus will return on May 21, 2011. His proof for this is Luke 17:26-27, “as it happened in the days of Noah…”. Since the flood began? Covered the earth seven feet deep? Whatever, on May 21, 4990 BCE, exactly 7,000 years ago. And God gave Noah a week’s warning. Thus, Jesus will come next May 21. For sure. They bet that the dazzling precision of the math will discourage people from asking, “Just which geologist has determined that the ‘Flood’ began on May 21, 4990 BCE?”. But stay tuned to the Weather Channel for the next episode of “It Could Happen Tomorrow”!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, Letha, you give us so much to think about! Your final comments about “building up” made me think: Didn’t these people pay attention in Sunday school when we learned that song about the foolish man who built his house on the sand and the wise woman who built her house on the Rock! (Okay, maybe I changed the words but I can still sing and do the motions at the same time!). In reading your post I was also reminded of my mother’s fear that a taste of wine at the Episcopal communion rail would lead straight to alcoholism. And the memorable line in my first published article declaring that dancing led to sex. Slippery slopes indeed!</p><p>But among conservative Christians, there are many other sources of fear as well. Certainly a perennial source in American history since its invention by John Nelson Darby in the nineteenth century is Dispensationalism. A headline in my local newspaper this morning reads ” Billboards predict the Rapture.”. Well actually the story reveals that the billboards in nine major cities so far did not come up with this on their own but were put up to it by fans of Family Radio. Its founder Harold Camping has declared that for sure Jesus will return on May 21, 2011. His proof for this is Luke 17:26-27, “as it happened in the days of Noah…”. Since the flood began? Covered the earth seven feet deep? Whatever, on May 21, 4990 BCE, exactly 7,000 years ago. And God gave Noah a week’s warning. Thus, Jesus will come next May 21. For sure. They bet that the dazzling precision of the math will discourage people from asking, “Just which geologist has determined that the ‘Flood’ began on May 21, 4990 BCE?”. But stay tuned to the Weather Channel for the next episode of “It Could Happen Tomorrow”!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>Comment on Stepping over Boundaries and Finding New Metaphors by Erin Lane</title><link>http://www.eewc.com/72-27/stepping-over-boundaries-and-finding-new-metaphors/#comment-8</link> <dc:creator>Erin Lane</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:03:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.eewc.com/?post_type=72-27&#038;p=1904#comment-8</guid> <description>Letha,
Thanks for another thoughtfully researched piece! I particularly love the effort at the end to construct new symbols for “doing theology” or interpreting scripture. This was in fact what the first Christians had to do in formulating Trinitarian thought on the full humanity and divinity of Christ. Christ was not just a symbol of the Father - but her actual Son incarnate - a separate being of the same essence. There is a hearty tradition in our faith for thinkers like yourself!
A few issues at stake in your post strike me as (a) the definition of the word feminist - and how it is constantly equated with “issues” (that are not issues but rather people) such as homosexuality, abortion, equal pay for equal work rather than the simple belief in men and women’s inherent equality in the image of God. Even difference feminists would argue that men and women were created uniquely for slightly differentiated purposes. Also at stake is(b)the distrust of hierarchy by many feminist groups because of its pattern of abuse - when in fact - there is most certainly a beloved hierarchy between ourselves and our God! Lastly, (c) any new metaphors we create must always acknowledge how learning is a constant building and/or growing AND deconstructing and/or falling away from the Scriptural interpretations we cling to. In the end, it is God who draws us into the mystery of her love and not ourselves.
Best of luck to Kim! Peace, E</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Letha,</p><p>Thanks for another thoughtfully researched piece! I particularly love the effort at the end to construct new symbols for “doing theology” or interpreting scripture. This was in fact what the first Christians had to do in formulating Trinitarian thought on the full humanity and divinity of Christ. Christ was not just a symbol of the Father &#8211; but her actual Son incarnate &#8211; a separate being of the same essence. There is a hearty tradition in our faith for thinkers like yourself!</p><p>A few issues at stake in your post strike me as (a) the definition of the word feminist &#8211; and how it is constantly equated with “issues” (that are not issues but rather people) such as homosexuality, abortion, equal pay for equal work rather than the simple belief in men and women’s inherent equality in the image of God. Even difference feminists would argue that men and women were created uniquely for slightly differentiated purposes. Also at stake is(b)the distrust of hierarchy by many feminist groups because of its pattern of abuse &#8211; when in fact &#8211; there is most certainly a beloved hierarchy between ourselves and our God! Lastly, (c) any new metaphors we create must always acknowledge how learning is a constant building and/or growing AND deconstructing and/or falling away from the Scriptural interpretations we cling to. In the end, it is God who draws us into the mystery of her love and not ourselves.</p><p>Best of luck to Kim! Peace, E</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
